HUNGRY HEROES

I had to pay for my food in a war zone,but in the 70's/80's it was taken out of my wages every month the same as lodgings.The cooks were second to none when i was in the army whether in camp or exercise!! Where is the MFO these days for the forces(does it still exist??).I agree being on operations does make it difficult to carry kit back to your unit,But do you not use RAF flights these days??to get back to the uk after operations ie afghanistan??

By thomas carr.. Posted November 29 2009 at 7:35 AM.

Soldiers of today get all there kit issued, and if they do training in the jungle they will be issued special kit for that also. It is the same as doing Winter training in Norway special kit will be issued but the soldiers dont get a chance to return this kit to the stores, they must hold on to the equipment So this can amount to a lot of equipment. and the single soldiers entitlement on moving from one location to a new location on posting is only 6 cubic metres, so in other words the complete soldiers life and his equipment in 6 cubic metres.

so now moving on to courses, overseas when a soldier attends a course overseas he gets joining instructions which informs him what he will need on the said course. so this is where the problem arrises from the movement clerk who books the tickets does not ask for extra weight allowance and baggage because he has to save money, and the units R.A.O.'s have to sign off the ticket issues.
SO THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE SQUDDIES HAVE TO SELF PAY FOR LOTS OF THINGS AND CANT CLAIN THEM BACK.

By durch.. Posted November 22 2009 at 8:59 AM.

Poshbits................... a very good read and well constructed. As previously mentioned, I have recently finished 25 years as left as a Catering WO1, it would be better to reserve comments on individual thoughts of Higher Pay Band. Having been part of the lead up to Pay 2000. Every Corp, Arm and Branch were given their opportunity to speak up for their cause. In a seminar hall prepared for over 500 only 8 Officers/WO1 appeared to fight for their individual corner. I must say having been there and done it. When the chef was first out of bed, last to go to bed. Still go on every exercise operation as the remainder did and on touch down, where is the meal, when will it be ready. Hello.........were we not on the same flight. When it came to the Summer/Xmas Draws not all the chefs could attend, because we were the ones presenting the food. On Operations, when the troops are stood down, due to the heat levels. Where were the chefs? In the chefs tent in 70°C still cooking for the troops to provide the meals for when the troops woke up from their rest. That is a small part of why...... they got Higher Pay Band. That apart, you can see how delicate the situation is when you critisise the chef fraternity when this artilce is about PAYD not chefs pay.........

By Dave Chalmers.. Posted November 10 2009 at 9:35 AM.

I would just like to add that whatever happens within the forces, there will never be enough money to repair or upgrade blocks married quarters, give free food out pay for ALL the kit etc and every time there is bad press on any matter, something seems to get done about it with the cost being taken from one project to pay for another. With PAYD, just like the C vehicle PFI and ALC contracts, there has been loads of civilian contracts accepted to cater for the Army's every need and as we need more lads on the ground to deploy more and more nowadays, these so called contracts are supposed to supply our every need and cater for the forces as per the contract. What the problem is that the military is now tied by these civilian contracts and the contracts stipulate what the military can or can't do - the effect it has had is in the majority of respects it appears negative because it doesn't seem to work. There has been many negatives.
Squaddies do get the better deal on tour depending on their role in whatever country. We sample the American forces delights when we go to Kuwait and when we return to our blocks we realise how different we are treated. We are not as big as the US. A lot of US Forces contirbute to their welfare packages through their pay however.

Our country is not that big and if all the money was ploughed into giving free food to the soldiers then something else would have to suffer ie kit.

For every good thing a squaddie does it is mentioned once or twice in the press. When it is negative, it knocks back so much good things that have been done. We can't always get it right - some of the comments like we do get better facilities TV's, bars in the naafi etc well the more people using PAYD then the better the facilities in the long term. Chefs are not Chefs any more they are dictated to by the civvy contract and do not really earn their crust until the Christmas Ball or Summer Ball is put on display and their work is proudly shown and that's when Chefs show their true skill. I dont think there should have been High Pay Band for Chefs to be honest now PAYD is in however, we should embrace the cost of meals of how little the cost for the quantity and quality. Soldiers do require educating on how to spend their money more often now than before. We have had PAYD and lads getting more money to spend each month a few posters on nutrition and healthy eating etc but that is not enough, we should request the civvy contract to promote healthier eating by way of giving presentations to the lads and possibly dieticians coming to the workplace from time to time to show the benefits.

Food on deployment is fantastic, food at home is ok but lets think about what will suffer if the funds were allocated from something else to pay for this to happen.

Nothing can ever be perfect in a real world there will always be something not right - there is meetings held for almost everything that is in place in todays Army - get the lads on the ground to actually post their comments at these meetings and have the courage to stand up a complain or thank the service being provided, if it will not change then take it up the chain of command - if the contractor is not supplying the goods then they are liable for not keeping to the contract. I could go on forever but lots of things can be done to overall improve the quality of life and believe it or not the majority of these things are a lot closer to home than you think. If you think your place is pants then do someting about it bad feelings are always contageous - it is achievable !! Your lads will appreciate it more by standing together and making it happen.......We all remember the good times eh!

By poshbits.. Posted November 9 2009 at 8:32 PM.

Mick P.............. get educated. The old system was better? Yes, of course it was!! You were eating your meals while your mates didn't. That is how you managed to eat so well. The old system took the money direct from your pay whether you ate or not. So lets see, for 21 meals in a week, I certainly never used to go to breakfast Mon-Fri (5 meals), on a Fri I would work through lunch to get away early on the Fri, so no lunch and dinner either (2 meals). I would disapear at weekends, shock, theres (6 meals). So 5+2+6=13, 21-13=8. Yes I was paying for 21 meals but consumed 8. The rules stated that the Cookhouse had to spend the money, none to be left over at all. That mean't that when all your mates, and those that didn't like you, didn't eat they were actually providing more steak and chips on your plate. Get it!! Oh and all those times that you could melinger in your accommodation blocks, garage or office, and then decide that you would send someone over to the cookhouse for some tea, coffee and biscuits. Where do you think that came from? Yes you got it. It was surveyed from the 1960's and people were fed up with paying for something that they were not fully using. Hence now, you spend it when you want, where you want. But remember, there is now no spare money where people didn't turn up. That is why the standards will never ever meet the ones set on the old system. Capt Beattie MC should be ashamed, naive or what?

By Dave Chalmers.. Posted November 9 2009 at 4:27 PM.

its all very well saying that squaddies should not have to pay for their food, but how would that work with those that are married? would be a bit unfair to give only single squaddies free food. they have always paid for food and the only thing that has changed is that they need to use their heads on payday and leave a bit aside for food,its not rocket science. oh and to the poster who was a pay clerk and reckons we all well off, i dont know what rank you were but my husbands wage definatley doesnt allow me to buy designer bags and jeans!!.

By sarah.. Posted November 8 2009 at 11:15 PM.

Continued from before.....
Do I hear anyone ask how the married soldier manages to survive and feed himself along with his family. Should we invade their space at home and feed them or are we saying that single living in soldiers should benefit more than anyone else. In relation to not being nutritionally fit to deploy or train, nonsence. The Daily Core Meal is gauged at 3300 calories per day. Exactly the same calorific content of a 24 hour Operational Ration Pack that our brave troops consume on the front line in Sangin etc. If they can survive in the heat carrying 100lb and fight in ferocious battles and carry there dead comrades back to the rear line, then so can the unrealistic individuals back in the PAYD units. You wanted your own money in your pocket so tha you can pay for what you want when you want........get on with it and don't disgrace yourselves. If it wasn't for the contractor, you would be sitting in dreary damp looking dining facilities with plastic chairs and old tatty pictures of tanks on the wall. Now you have updated facilities, flat screens, IT Suites, colour co-ordinated decor.........need I say anymore.

By Dave Chalmers.. Posted November 8 2009 at 3:54 PM.

Having just completed 25 years in the military as an Army Chef. Finished as a Senior Catering Warrant Officer (WO1), worked over the last 4 years implementing PAYD into the Mid-Hants Multi Activity Contract. The contractor which has so far in the last year alone, given back in excess of £230,000 to those army units that feed at PAYD Dining Facilities. This money is profit made by the "so called rip off" contractor. Yes, they give it back so that troops can have other nicities purchased at unit level to include donations for adventure training and expeditions etc. No soldier will ever starve, however as it was seen so often on my unit visits, that by the 3rd day of the month, soldiers were on the breadline as they had spent the entire weekend, lagering it up in pubs, getting tatoos, walking in the camp gate with 3 JJB sports bags with the latest trainers, new TV "because they could". However did they stop to think what expenses they may have throughout the month for example feed themselves, buy toiletries, or even keep some money in the bank in case of family emergencies. You know, "how do I get home if my parents get ill?" TBC

By Dave Chalmers.. Posted November 8 2009 at 3:53 PM.

As an ex-serviceman myself I find your artical disturbing. When I served the cost of food you ate was taken direct from your wages. This idea now should be nipped in the bud right now,as the men and women of the forces are doing a job, in the name of the country. The part concerning the young soldier being charged for his baggage could have been avoided by him as there is as there always has been the M.F.O. way of sending between postings of most of his kit. He has only himself to blame on this matter. My son is at the moment in Afghanistan and all he brought home from his last tour was hand luggage. The rest sent by the army service as mentioned above. This is the normal and always has been the proceedure. By the way I served for 15 years at the times of Northern Ireland and the Falklands,so I know what I am talking about.

By Mr J. Cunningham.. Posted November 6 2009 at 7:47 PM.

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING ...EXPECTING THE BOYS/GIRLS, MEN/WOMEN.. TO FIGHT A WAR , THAT ISN'T EVEN '' OUR '' WAR, WITHOUT LOOKING AFTER THEIR HEALTH AND WELFARE..I AM LOST FOR WORDS TO DESCRIBE HOW OR WHAT I FEEL ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT , I AM ASHAMED TO ADMIT I AM BRITISH :THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO TREAT PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE EXPECTING TO DEFEND YOUR COUNTRY, AND STOP WORLD WARS.....AMERICA LOOKS AFTER IT'S TROOPS FAR BETTER THAN WE TREAT OURS....IT IS OUR HUMAN RIGHT TO BE LOOKED AFTER FOR WHAT OUR COUNTRY EXPECTS US TO DO .....TOTALLY DISGUSTED !!!!!

By BOB PASS.. Posted November 5 2009 at 11:39 AM.

how low can this government stoop - especially as they have their own taxpayers assisted meals and booze in parliament - this must be the most disgaceful thing they have done - are they also expecting servicemen to pay their own air fare to go to war . ?????????????

By joyceecee123.. Posted November 4 2009 at 11:45 PM.

I am ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED to realise that quite a few of the British public actually agree that service men & women SHOULD pay for their food! Does anyone know how much a typical squaddie earns in return for their loyalty to this country?? I can tell you it works out at about 50p an hour when you take into account the hours they have to put in when training and actually serving on active duty! What is wrong with this Government and more importantly the British public?!
Free food is the VERY least a squaddie should expect for their heroism and unwavering duty to this country! I wonder how many civilians would consider working in the same conditions as these brave men and women without essential nourishment provided? Shame on you!

By Joanne Maybury.. Posted November 3 2009 at 9:24 AM.

Outrageous and insane - This government continually proves itself to be no friend of the armed forces - from running foreign 'excursions' for the last 10 years on peacetime budgets, to the insult of recent of one cabinet member holding down two posts.

Then the frequent cases of penny pinching - from lack of helicopters, inadequetely armoured ground transport, poor communications equipment, the very recent and terrible Nimrod incident - All these examples having fatal consequences by the way.

Now this with rations - well done for pointing out that troops pay more for their food than MPs in Westminster. The government couldn't show more contempt and disrespect for our armed forces if they Planned it. When GB lays the poppy wreath next time at the cenotaph, look closely - hopefully (but don't count on his self-enlightenment) it's hanging in Shame.

By Gordon.. Posted November 2 2009 at 7:26 PM.

Firstly, Id like to agree with Tim Stubbins comment, ´soldiers are professional whiners´, not only did I marry a soldier, I also worked in the cookhouse and shop. If soldiers didnt waste so much on booze, fags and clubbing, they would have a lot more in their pockets. Difference being is that I am in Germany where the Naafi is still in place, and I think it should be again in the UK. Why should just the soldiers living abroad receive such benefits? The standard, choice, quantity and price is very good indeed. Where else can you get a 3 course meal for €1.91, thats about one pound seventy. I´ll give an example of the meal available; fresh soup starter, main course of roast beef, pork and lamb, or steak, chicken, Irish stew, and as much veg and potatoes as you can eat, at least 4 different sweets, like sponge pudding and custard, gateau, trifles, fruit salads, apple crumble.....etc. Tea, coffee or juice included, with as many free refills as you can handle. Shall I go on? Tell me ANYWHERE that you could buy that kind of meal that cheaply? Myself and my husband eat there too some days, we pay more but its still good value for money, we have just eaten our freshly cooked stir frys, made with ingredients of our choice by a proffesionally trained chef; Were not complaining. Trust me, even if the meals were free the soldiers would STILL moan about something. Now, if we were talking about soldiers equipment, thats a different story, I would be moaning.

By Lisa.. Posted November 2 2009 at 7:15 PM.

I was totally against PAYD whilst a serving soldier,but now I work for the Naafi in Germany in one of their PAYD cookhouses.Most of our customers at lunch are either wives or civilian workers,who do not object to paying the prices asked .Also do not forget that the NAAFI is a non profit organisation,giving back profits to the Army.So even if you pay for your food ,you are also subsidising forces sport and adventure training.Perhaps it would be wise to see the Naafi back inplace in the UK as well.

By andy.. Posted November 2 2009 at 6:51 PM.

Its not just the standard of the food its the whole standard of how army personel have to live. My son tells me that when they come into the block from a days exercise to prepare his kit for the next day, once everyone starts to switch on the electric the system cant take it and the electricy gets cuts off. This leaves them all waiting all hours just to wash and iron kit. Why the hell should my son be sitting in a room with a torch for light. If the MP's can have the standard of food for the price they pay then so should all the armed forces.

If the MP's were not so greedy then maybe PAYD wouldnt be seen as disgraceful to so many and please remember it doesnt matter how much pay you get no pay is worth a life and if it was not for people like the armed forces where would we be. They deserve all the support they can get.

By CAH.. Posted November 2 2009 at 6:48 PM.

Squaddies have usually spent their wages by the end of the first week - they are usually hopeless at managing their money. This means that for 3 weeks out of 4 they will either have to beg, borrow or steal in order to eat! This country has gone to the dogs under the Labour Government

By Anne Sheppard.. Posted November 2 2009 at 6:40 PM.

Are you stupid??? Soldiers have always paid for thier food!!!!!!! it was just taken straight out of their wages, except when they are on Tour or on Exercise. The new system is much fairer as they only pay for when they eat and the "CORE MEAL" option is a steal for around £4 a day (thats 3 meals, with tea or coffee or a juice)

By dean wright.. Posted November 2 2009 at 6:24 PM.

I would like to reply to Steve carley's post. He is right in saying that we should pay for what we eat, however the standard of food that I have eaten since PAYD has been sub standard. I was in Bruggen when the first PAYD cookhouse was opened and it was decent food for approximately a year. Then surprise surprise, the cut backs started and the food went down hill. If you go out for a meal to a restaurant and the food isn't up to a decent standard you could expect your money back or some complimentry offer to make up for it. I have been to two different postings since then with Afghan and Iraq in between. The standard of food with PAYD is not as good as it was with the old system.

Thats what I think the biggest gripe is about, and rightly so...

By Mick P.. Posted November 2 2009 at 2:30 PM.

its sad to think that these soldiers have to pay for there own food when they join the services maybe we should teach these young men and women not to fight for queen and country as bright upstanding brave citizens and go and steal rape murder and then be sent to prison for less than they sign up for they will get a roof over their head and three meals a day oh where is the justice

By sam barratt.. Posted November 2 2009 at 1:47 PM.

Why do squadies get fed at 5pm, officers at 7pm? This encourages them to get takeaways later in the evening leading to bad diet (and habits). Combine this with PAYD and they'll all be to fat to fight!

By Carly Sue.. Posted November 2 2009 at 1:55 PM.

This is no great supprise is it, the British Goverment has always used and abused it's forces, Bring back the Army Catering Corps in all cook houses in all militarty bases, the grub the slop jockys served up was good enough in my day and there was always plenty of it.

another Ex squaddie

By Terr Boydon.. Posted November 2 2009 at 1:54 PM.

It's telling how illiterate some of these responses are - these soldiers are institutionalised and uneducated so take away free meals and many will forget to eat. Get rid of PAYD I say!

By Greg.. Posted November 2 2009 at 1:52 PM.

All the comments so far seem to be negating the fact that all three services voted for the pay as you dine system, with an ovewhelming yes. If soldiers cannot administer themselves to allow enough money to eat then there is a system in place for them to get fed. Our civilian counterparts do not get fed for free so why should we, lets face it we are not under paid compared to most. It is in a soldiers nature to moan and gripe about everything that doesn't go the way they expected - to that end get over it, PAYD is here to stay and is a much farer system to the old regime.

By Jim.. Posted November 2 2009 at 10:57 AM.

As a senior military caterer, can I just point out that this is a change that the soldiers DEMANDED as they felt that they were paying for meals they did not take. Under the previous system they had money deducted from their pay at source whether they ate in camp or not. They still ate McDonalds or Pot Noodles whenever they fancied. Now the MoD have put the money back in the soldiers' pockets, as they asked, and correctly too, giving them the choice to eat when, where and how they like. They now pay for what they eat, just like MPs and indeed just like the rest of UK society.

By Steve Carley.. Posted November 2 2009 at 12:12 PM.

I was married to a soldier for 18 years, my daughter has just finished basic training in the RAF and I work on a MOD establishment. I have seen the changes over the years from having Food and Accommodation deducted from monthly wages at source to todays Pay As You Dine.

I agree that the principal of the change was needed for those who didn't use the cookhouse. The problem of people eating pot noodles and poor diets has always been there. However, I have seen the standards of food served fall dramatically with private companies like Sedhexo running the kitchens. The food was a much better quality when the military chefs prepared the food. They had pride in their work as it was their chosen trade.

There should be an option to opt in or out of PAYD.

My daughter who is only 17 has just left home for the first time. She went from having 3 meals paid for from her wages and after basic training has to now use PAYD. She has already complained about the standards and choice of food, and very worryingly has gone out and bought her own breakfast cereal and dried mug shots for meals. This will not keep her going through the vigorous PT she has to undertake.

Another problem is that she has never budgeted before. By the third week of last month she had no money left and ate very little in the last week before she came home on leave when she ate me out of house and home!! The problem was that she passed out of her basic training in that week. Her food had been paid for up till then and she wasn't aware that she had to pay for the last week.

I know that budgeting is a problem for a lot of young people when they leave home. Maybe there should be a lesson for youngpeople to help them prepare for this.

By Vicki.. Posted November 2 2009 at 9:42 AM.

Send the pathetic new labour m.p.'s out to Iraq and Afghanistan. Can you imagine prescott having to survive on next to no food? No, neither can I.
This whole thing is a disgrace.

By manderson.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:19 PM.

we always had to pay for food and accommodation which was deducted at source. as a musician we were able to claim money back for missed meals. that was in the 70s and it doesn't look as though the prices have gone up much. lucky them!

By tibbsy.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:14 PM.

It is an utter disgrace that any of our Armed Forces are having to pay for meals, this just shows how low this Government will go, and the measures they will stoop to, even against the very people they want to stand up and defend our land from terrorism.
The Armed Forces should have free meals as part and parcel of the job they do, and I for one will NOT vote for any party who will keep this pay to eat policy going.

By Fred Norman.. Posted November 1 2009 at 9:27 PM.

Not only do i disagree with the pay as you dine service but my son who is serving in Northern Ireland at present draws his wages from an ATM machine on his base they only have one machine which i believe is a Link machine each time our soldiers use it they are charged a fee of £1.99 for drawing their hard earned wages this is daylight robbery and should be addressed immediately.

By tony.. Posted November 1 2009 at 9:11 PM.

WHY can't the troops be allowed to claim £400per month like the m.p.s for food?

By C Davies.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:00 PM.

If it wasnt bad enough that these young men were having to buy their own kit,being supplied with sub standard equipment and being sent to fight and die for their country by a government so intent on lining their own nests,to hear that the Whitehall penny pinchers are now starving them too beggars belief!It makes you wonder why these youngsters join up in the first place.Maybe Brown and his cronies would sit up and take notice then!

By Mark Garrett.. Posted November 1 2009 at 6:24 PM.

Hugry Heroes:

Most comments have disagreed with the article and rightly so. Soldiers nowadays have a large selection to choose from, and the cost to eat these meals is relatively cheap. If they chooose to eat from the CORE Menu they will pay less than £2 a meal. With the meal you get in most cases a three course meal with a drink included (Vegetables you can have as much as you want). If you go outside the Core Menu you will pay more. If the food is of poor quality then there is also a complaints procedure. If a soldier goes hungry it is entirely his/her fault, whilst there is a system in place to stop soldiers going hungry.It is the soldiers choice whether they eat properly or not and there own doing if they dont have the money to pay for it.
Any one who thinks otherwise is either not in the know or likes to disagree for the sake of it.
The fact they pay for their food has never changed in over 20 years, except that it came straight from their pay each month.

By GARRY.. Posted November 1 2009 at 4:46 PM.

THIS IS SO WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! We should be doing all we can to ensure that our armed forces are well fed. Shame on the UK government (and I use that term loosely). Can someone tell me how much it would cost to feed a soldier for a year? Compared to some of the money wasted by this government, it's an utter disgrace. No wonder the country's going down the pan!!

By John.. Posted November 1 2009 at 4:24 PM.

Soldiers have always had to pay for meals on base; however it was deducted at source. This meant food and accommodation were paid up front and squaddies had the worry of managing that element taken away - if they blew the rest of their pay, no matter they still had a roof over their head and the three square meals guaranteed. Soldiers are notoriously bad with money true, so this scheme doesn't work for those who are not good at managing their money. And in the current climate of operation after operation, who can blame them for blowing their pay in a one-er when they have no guarantees they'll be around next month to spend if they are more prudent with their cash! As with all elements relating to defence matters now, profit before soldier's welfare seems to be the priority!

By Sharon.. Posted November 1 2009 at 4:07 PM.

PAYD is a great thing because you only pay when you eat at the cookhouse.The only thing is that the contractors like sodexho have to improve the service it provides to the soldiers.The food can be prepared better and more choices of food to choose from would be better. The MOD need to show a greater intrest to soldiers,sailors and airmen caused if wasn't for them, then there would be no MOD.

By Mine.. Posted November 1 2009 at 3:55 PM.

And in response to the kit story - there is a baggage system laid on. If they don't want to use it, that's their problem. Where's the scandal?

By Lolly.. Posted November 1 2009 at 2:47 PM.

Angry wife - I was a serving single mother and had to pay for people to look after my child day and night when I went on ops or exercise as well as having to pay for my food, so don't give me your sob story about his having to pay for food only. Perhaps the moral of the story is don't have 4 kids if you can't afford to look after and provide for them. Most people stop reproducing when they get to 2 and manage just fine.

By Lolly.. Posted November 1 2009 at 2:45 PM.

The wage rates are available to anyone. If people don't like it, they don't have to join. Actually squaddies wages are very fair. When I left I was a full Cpl on 28k per annum, and that's without LSSA for ops etc (I agree that LSSA should be more). My WO2 was on 40k. A graduate would be lucky to get that and they've been educated. A public sector worker would maybe get about half of the 28k if they were lucky. So what's so bad about that? The wages increase every year and also increase with promotion. It's called an incentive. Additionally, squaddies who live out are entitled to travelling costs and my friend who lived on camp didn't have to pay for her electricity. Neither did I ever pay for water when I was serving. Those sound like perks to me.

It would be nice to give our serving personnel everything they want, but there is simply not the money to pay for it. I totally agree that the equipment for Afghan should be spot on if the government expects people to risk their lives, but in the more general scheme of things, most squaddies I know get paid a lot of money for not doing a right lot back in camp.

By Lolly.. Posted November 1 2009 at 3:20 PM.

My husband served in the RAF for 22 years having left 17 years ago. My daughter is married to a guy in the RAF Regiment. They live is RAF accommodation which for the last month has had no heating due to the MOD having outsourced to a civilian business as it is cheaper. They have a son of 8 months old. The salary my son in law receives is riddiculously low for what the government expects of him i.e. sending them for 6-9 months at a time to Afghanistan. Isn't it about time we looked after these guys and their families - they have no perks whatsover and do not understany any of them wanting to be serving soldiers.

By Linda Stratford.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:56 PM.

Sorry one mote point

5. Why is the picture of 2 x soldiers in this article? I know both these individuals and one even worked for me when photo was taken. The picture is of 2 chefs testing the new ration packs prior to them being launched and these guys work happily in PAYD

By Lee.. Posted November 1 2009 at 2:16 PM.

Having worked for Sodexo under both systems I have to say pay as you dine is appaling. I have in all my catering years never seen such rubbish come out of a kitchen. Two choices one burgers the other pizza are not much better than the pot noodles. The salad bar is a joke. The squash so watered down it has not taste. It has always been about profit. At least in the old days the menu was planned to be balanced.For families doing their shopping on a monthly bases and being send on a course they dip in their own pockets twice. A lot of people have microwaves in their rooms. Then go to supermarkets for meals to try to improve their diet. Mcdonalds burgers are cheaper and far better quality. If you are vegetarian you are just going to starve or live on chips and beans.

By isobel attwood.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:50 PM.

i served for 12 years in the army and remember iraq
2003.we were given no food by the m.o.d. and had
to scrounge off the yanks.
they used to call us the borrowers.when there was a public outcry our brave m.o.d. sent us ration packs up to 10 years out of date.it was so embarising,but thats why they have the freedom to do this,because of soldiers.

By sean.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:04 PM.

my husband is in the army and has only just got back from afgan. i think in some places the pay as you dine system is a good idea but you should have the choice of either pay as you dine or a monthly billing system that they have to give number and name and have taken off wages way old system did. my husband goes away on a lot of courses and when has to go places where they have pay as you dine then he ends up either having to take more money than needs because of paying for his food or he doesnt bother with cos doesnt want to pay. i know he can claim money back but so much hassle having to fill claims out yourself now on jpa that he never bothers.

By claire.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:14 PM.

This isnt anything new, before I left in 2007, PAYD was in place and back then there was lads going hungry early in the new project eating noodles/toasties, We need to take a leaf out of the America's book and put our armed forces first, They fight in far away dangerous lands so all us can sleep safe at night, they don't get paid much as it is, But yet footballers kick a bag of wing around a pitch for 90mins a week and get paid 80k A WEEK..I just don't understand whats going on!!

By Paul O.. Posted November 1 2009 at 12:54 PM.

i'd like to reply to lolly, it is not all squaddies fault if they dont have the money to eat. we have four children at home to feed as well as other bills, yet when my husband gets dicked for a last minute course it is us that have tofork out for the meals leaving us out of pocket. i agree their is no reason for singlies to be complaining of no money but u have to consider the married blokes with a family to support

By angry wife.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:01 PM.

Gordon Brown is a NO NO, NO armoured trucks ,NO helicopters ,NO protective clothing , and now NO free food.There is another NO he should be given and the sooner the better NO JOB, and we will all be better off without him.

By Keith Lester.. Posted November 1 2009 at 12:40 PM.

I understand that the forces are offered what is known as a square meal which turns out to useless as a meal. Maybe this is why my son kept volunteering for overseas ops including Iraq, he never came home alive.

By R Manning.. Posted November 1 2009 at 11:50 AM.

Labour looks after the people.

WRONG LABOUR LOOKS AFTER ITS MPS ONLY.LOOK HOW MUCH BLAIR IS MAKING

By BOB JOHNSON.. Posted November 1 2009 at 11:50 AM.

What a disgrace mps get first class meals and drinks free and many more perks . for sitting on there backsides makeing a mess of the country . and thats when they turn up . no wonder they lie through there teeth to keep in there job. i would not go in the army again for this country we are just gun fodder for gutless mps .

By chasa.. Posted November 1 2009 at 11:42 AM.

The issue is the standard of the food. Ive eaten on PAYD and pre paid units and the food is terrible. The only good food is cooked by serving servicemen/women. The best food ive had since being in is when ive been on exercise and on Ops. The serving chefs take some pride in their food where as theses PROFIT MAKING COMPANIES dont care when rubbish they serve up. Bring back serving chefs ASAP!!

By john.. Posted November 1 2009 at 11:27 AM.

The difference in quality since going to PAYD is immense and the healthy options are very limited. I would not complain about the price of food. Indeed, most of the senior rates would pay more if things improved; however, we are all worried about the young service men and women's eating habits – or lack of.
It speaks volumes when the civilian chefs openly complain and are embarrassed about what they have to serve - due to the poor quality and strict control on ingredients. I quote one of the recent comments by a chef, "it is a joke, you guys are meant to be fighting fit; prisoners get better food than you!"
At the end of the day money talks, and as that is in short supply, the forces will do what they always do... adapt and overcome (might moan along the way mind!).

By Wayne.. Posted November 1 2009 at 11:20 AM.

I am still serving and PAYD is a very good idea in principal especially if some meals are missed by choice by the individual (breakfast is a common one). Also if the services had their own cooks at UK shore bases/camps as they did in the not so distant past it would be a vast improvement on the unkempt and shabby appearance of the civilian cooks who produce very poor quality, small portions of muck being served up by the greedy contractors (SODEXO/ESS).

By Gateman.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:50 AM.

Im in the Service and i have ran the accounts for sodexo who have the pay as you dine contract. i can tell you now that their main effort is to make a profit, and they do this by any means possible. ive seen them cut corners, cut portions and even over charge on private functions. the firm is a joke, the managment dont care about there own staff or the people they are meant to feed.

By j.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:41 AM.

Disgraceful !!!! Paying for meals in any form is not OK !!!
What next ... paying the state to serve in the military and defend the crown ??

By Rob Prophet.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:41 AM.

PAYD was welcomed by most as it meant they were not paying for food at weekends when they went home. They still can have the basic core menu IF they want something more dearer, then they pay for it. NO serviceman / woman will go hungry.

By Michael.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:15 AM.

The US Army DOES charge for meals..my Partner is in the US Army, and has money deducted EACH month for food.

By Jdred.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:14 AM.

Just a note here,....the US Army DONT get FREE Meals at home bases at all....My partner is in the US Army and is deducted money each month for meals

By jdred.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:04 AM.

Just a note here,....the US Army DONT get FREE Meals at home bases at all....My partner is in the US Army and is deducted money each month for meals

By jdred.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:02 AM.

Funny, most squaddies I know were totally in favour of PAYD because many never ever ate in the cookhouse, prefering instead to eat out or in the block, and were therefore charged for food they didn't eat (food wasn't free before PAYD). I very rarely ate the cookhouse, yet was still charged - so how is that fair?

Squaddies are very well off financially and if they aren't it is entirely their own fault. I know because I was a pay clerk and saw everyone's wages in addition to my own - which were well enough for me and my family to survive comfortably on whilst still buying luxuries like designer bags and jeans costing a couple of hundred pounds a pop.

By Lolly.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:05 AM.

No different in the Royal Navy too. Outside HMS Collingwood in Fareham Hampshire Macdonalds are doing such a trade that they have just spent a fortune doing up the place to attract more of the 2 to 3 thousand matelots living just across the road. They are also charged council tax to stay there so a cheap burger is going to save them money.

By Ian Hayle.. Posted November 1 2009 at 10:04 AM.

Strange is it not that MP'S are allowed £400 per month for food purchase.
I said when this PAYD scheme was introduced that it would not work.
The ACC were some of the best cooks in the world now contract caters have the job, the food is often terrible.Try getting a meal after hours in UK establisnments with contract caters in control. It is a disgrace.

By Ron Plenderleith.. Posted November 1 2009 at 9:53 AM.

Total disgrace, soldiers who are putting their life on the line on low salary, in a job were physical fitness is paramount and they have to pay for meals.

What has this country come to, have we no pride, morals or decency. This goverment are just out to kick people every which way we can. This country is in such a mess and we will be paying the price for this for years to come while they are living off their expenses that we pay for in our taxes

By Iain - Birmingham.. Posted November 1 2009 at 9:06 AM.

The Services have paid for their food & accomodation since 1970. We would be charged for it even when we were away on leave! PAYD must be a good idea as long as toms budget properly and the standard of food is high.

By Richard Hone.. Posted November 1 2009 at 9:09 AM.

Absoloutly disgusting it is time we faced up to the reality of this big brother politics we should be ashamed as a nation this is happening

By Chris.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:51 AM.

I am a catering manager of a large PAYD site. As previosly mentioned soldiers can still eat 3 nutritionally balanced meals per day for less than £4.00. If they have no money there is a process in place for them to be able to eat and then this money will be deducted from their following months wage. PAYD was first devised in the 1970's and is what people asked for. Soldiers often say they have no money for food yet they can still afford nice clothes, beer, cigs (if they smoke). It's all just total rubbish. As with everyone else they can have whatever they like but must be preapred to pay for it.

By Lee.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:52 AM.

payd is a joke in the Sgts Mess regimental dinner or any meal now under the private rip off companys costs a fortune and the food is very poor and small portions also you get charged double as to cater for the Sodexo washer ups servers etc etc. if you are married or have your own property you now have to apy for all your meals when you are sent on courses detachments. thats why lot more troops not going on much needed cses as they still got to feed the wife kids left back at home..

By airborne.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:57 AM.

I was a catering clerk in the RAF and the DMR (daily messing rate) was £1.45 for all three meals, I know the typical airman paid £4.00 per day, but this paid for all the other sundries as well. The PAYD is exactly the same, but it allows you to opt out of meals and therefore not pay for meals you don't consume like weekends.
The standard of food in the RAF has decreased over the years ever since the Tories got rid of the majority of Service messes and installed private caterers. I still keep in touch with ex-colleagues who's only complaints are the standard and quantity of the food.

By Lee Ford.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:42 AM.

Military have ALWAYS paid for their meals! As usual - the press dont get the facts right!!!!!
Before PAYD the food , accomm and other items were automatically deducted from their pay before they received the money - Now - they pay extremely low prices (less than £2) for core menu meals, and only marginaly more for any value added meals on the daily menus.
Perhaps complaining about paying peanuts for food is a bit ridiculous considering how many benefits the squaddies and their dependents get compared to the financial nightmare many are in at home in the uk due to the recession and lack of jobs???
I work feeding these guys here - and most are just as quick to tell me if they like the food I cook for them as they are if they need any changes made.
Prices are incredibly low, lower than most other staff facilities I have worked in.
Perhaps a lack of responsibility in the personal finances of some of the younger squaddies should be looked at??? They are not exactly on minimum wage........

By Ros.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:42 AM.

I was in the services for 12 years and must admit it's not only the standard of the food that's appalling it's the general standards within the camps themselves that in some are almost inhumane. I've also visited US bases and the general standards of everything including food, accommodation, sports and leisure facilities are light years ahead of us in the uk, not to mention the subsidised px stores where you can buy most things at a vastly reduced price.
Whilst we're on the subject of second class citizens, military personnel have to pay income tax whilst away fighting for their country whilst our cousins in the US and Canada are tax free, whether they are out of the country for 2 days or 2 years!!!!

By wmc.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:26 AM.

PAYD is a good idea, it gives troops the choice of eating or not on the barracks. Before this you paid food and accomodation charges regardless of if you ate in the cookhouse/mess. Media hype doesn't half get things out of proportion sometimes for goodness sake. Before I married my hubby and moved into Army housing he would often go to the local supermarket for a sandwich for lunch but still paid food costs even though he had not eaten army grub. Nowadays if he did the same he would not pay for the missed meal as he had chosen not to eat on the barracks.

By Net.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:11 AM.

I have just come back from a course where PAYD is in force. I feel the standard of food has dropped terribly and not much of a choice as it used to be. The portions are very small also. So if you are an 8 stone female then ok, but if you are a member of RAF Rugby Team, then 1 sausage, 1 bacon and 1 egg is'nt going to keep you going. At least in the old days if you were still hungry, you could go back for more.

By Chris.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:08 AM.

A lot of these comment miss the point, saying that it's been this way for years.

Should soldiers pay for food? I don't think they should. Food, kit, accommodation, medical treatment et all should be covered.

It's sickening that MP's on 60 grand get extra money for food, and whatever else they can hoover up their snouts, but the soldiers have to pay for food.

By Dan Brown.. Posted November 1 2009 at 8:07 AM.

Just goes to show what the goverment think of our lads,and shows us what morons we have running our country,whats next pay for there own kit,bullets ect, IM A TAX PAYER GET ME OUT OF HERE.

By leicesterblue.. Posted November 1 2009 at 7:51 AM.

Just goes to show what the goverment think of our lads,and shows us what morons we have running our country,whats next pay for there own kit,bullets ect, IM A TAX PAYER GET ME OUT OF HERE.

By leicesterblue.. Posted November 1 2009 at 7:46 AM.

Soldiers have always paid for their food, it used to be deducted from pay whether you ate in the cook house or not. I was in the army for 12 years and rarely ate in the cookhouse, but I was still paying for food I didn't eat.

By Julie .. Posted November 1 2009 at 6:58 AM.

What? Sorry, but to moan because they have to pay as they eat is utter nonsense. I was in the Army for over 6 years and had to pay regardless of actually eating the monthly meals or not, back then we didn't have a choice. They talked about pay as you dine then and I thought it was a good idea for people like me who actually managed to have three meals a day without going to the cookhouse. I did wonder how the skint flints who couldn't manage their money would survive. Sorry, but most in the block living soldiers can't handle their money or are in piles of debt. Being at war makes no changes to that situation. The Captain in the article has a strange outlook on things. How would they survive in the real world where 3 meals a day costs much more.
Oh and the potnoodle generation was already around way before they started the pay as you dine scheme.
Some people used to have breakfast, lunch was always packed out and dinner was a low turnout.

By loxy.. Posted November 1 2009 at 6:52 AM.

As Tim Stubbins rightly says, the PAYD system was introduced because it was only a matter of time before some soldier sued the MoD for deducting money from their wages for food when they don't eat it. A survey was conducted througout the military long before the system was introduced and the results showed most service personnel were in favour of it.

I was a chef/manager for 22 years in the Army and was involved with PAYD. Service personnel can still eat 3 meals a day for the same price as they used to get deducted from their pay. It is up to them to manage their finances adequately. It is strange how the average soldier has enough money to go the town every weekend which is not cheap but they cannot afford £4.00 per day for food!!! I am now a civilian and wish I could eat the same food as they do for that price. They need to get in the real world.

By Trev Wallis.. Posted November 1 2009 at 5:50 AM.

I was in the Royal Navy, 1948-1955, I don't remember paying for food, in fact I was RA when Iwas stationed at Faslane, and I think the Navy gave my Wife money I think it was called rationed ashore, changed days in Britain, meanwhile the politicians are getting richer

By AGNES & ROBERT.. Posted November 1 2009 at 5:27 AM.

PAYD came in while i was in Cyprus and companies like Sodexo just rip everybody off and the quality of the food and service is a farce !!! The officers so called in charge insisted it will work and would hear or do nothing about complaints.

By Mark.. Posted November 1 2009 at 5:13 AM.

the pay as you dine is a poor system for the troops, the old system was far better, as the money was taken out at the start of the month,
there as cases of Soldiers falling out on runs because of lack of food. your avarge squaddie is poor with his money so lets just back to the old system. Ex squaddie talking

By Ralph Yardley.. Posted November 1 2009 at 3:20 AM.

No squaddie has to go hungry! Pay as you dine may not be fantastic but we get paid plenty to eat! 'Starving' I've been to Africa and seen people raking through bins for food. Some people don't know when they're well off!

By stew.. Posted November 1 2009 at 1:24 AM.

Can I claim this back? I spent 9 years paying food and accomodation while Labour ministers live rent free!

By steve tea.. Posted November 1 2009 at 12:23 AM.

When PAYD first came out i was totaly against the whole idea. Soldiers would rather have a pot noodle and a few pints rather than pay for a meal in the cookhouse. Private companies run our cookhouses now and 90% of the food gets binned every day because the soldiers just wont pay for the crap thats served.

By Iain.. Posted October 31 2009 at 11:48 PM.

Isnt funny how the people at the top are now highlighting this problem after the fact, if there was a problem then ex capt beattie should have had his say at the right time. Soldiers do have to pay for thier food but what they paid initialy has now been given back to them, and they can still eat for the same amount if they just managed their money correctly. The MOD has a system in place for soldiers who cant pay so they dont go un fed. If there is a problem with discipline the people who are in the position like capt beattie should look after the men first.

By djtaff.. Posted October 31 2009 at 11:32 PM.

Utter rubbish, squaddies are professional whiners (I know, I was one). We whined about paying for food when we didn't eat it, now they whine about it when they do eat it. Just because a tom will spend his last pound on beer rather than food does not make it a bad system. There are facilities to cope with a penniless tom, no soldier will ever go hungry.

By Tim Stubbins.. Posted October 31 2009 at 11:09 PM.