‘We will never forget him’
Jacqui Veitch couldn’t wait to meet her unborn baby – then tragedy struck. Every day, 17 women lose a child to stillbirth or neonatal death. Jacqui, 33, an artist from London, tells her story...
Photos
VideoIn one week my life changed completely. My teenage sweetheart, Joel, asked me to marry him and I found out I was pregnant. As I said 'yes' and Joel kissed me, he put his hands on my stomach. We were already a family of three.
The fact we'd created a life, albeit quicker than planned, was a lovely surprise. Joel and I had nicknamed our baby Jamima - Jam for short - as we couldn't decide on any boys' names. At night I'd lie with my eyes closed and rest my hand on my tummy. 'I wonder what you'll look like,' I'd say softly. I couldn't imagine life with a baby in our cramped two-bedroom flat, but I couldn't wait. I'd even planned my birthing-pool labour.
I loved being pregnant and it felt as though Jam and I had already bonded even though we'd never met.
I was around 34 weeks pregnant when my grandad suddenly died. Losing him was heartbreaking, but Jam was my solace. During the funeral service as I read out a poem I'd written, my emotions got the better of me. But as my voice started to falter, Jam gave me a gentle kick. That nudge gave me the strength to keep going.
On the way home I started to feel really nauseous. I crawled into bed, before suffering a violent bout of sickness and diarrhoea. I rang Joel, who's an animator and musician, but he was at work recording in a studio with his phone off. So I fell back into bed and slept.
The next day I rang my GP who recommended that I rest, but the day after I still felt weak, and was concerned I hadn't felt Jam move. Worried, I rang my mum and we headed to the maternity unit. As I waited to be seen, I put my hands on my tummy, hoping to feel my baby nudge back against my touch. The midwife put an instrument to my belly, and waited to hear the whoosh of my baby's heartbeat - but there was nothing. Just silence. 'Let's do a scan,' she said. I felt my chest tighten with rising panic, then a doctor arrived to do the scan. I couldn't look at the screen, instead I closed my eyes and waited to hear the now-familiar thud of my baby's heartbeat. Then the doctor took a deep breath, before saying: 'I'm so sorry, there's no heartbeat.'
Frozen with shock, I stared at the grubby ceiling. I was beyond tears and I needed to see Joel. One of the nurses called him and when he arrived, he knew what had happened. He pulled me into his arms, my baby bump between us, reminding us of what we'd lost.
Doctors told me I'd have to deliver my baby and I was given medication to trigger labour in 48 hours. I went home and waited for my contractions to start - it was unbearable. I'd been to birth classes, planned my birthing pool... but this?
Joel and I sobbed that night. My seemingly healthy baby had died - I was paranoid I might die too and wanted Joel to know how much I loved him and that I wanted him to go on and be happy - so I wrote him special messages in a notebook.
The morning the birth was scheduled, Joel drove us to the hospital. While we waited for my contractions to kick in, we went for a walk in the sunshine in the hospital grounds. When I felt like I couldn't walk any more I went inside, filled with dread.
I wanted the labour to be as natural as possible, but after a few hours, the emotional and physical pain was just too much and towards the end I was given a morphine drip. Then, at 7.11pm on April 9, 2006, our baby boy was born.
Joel cut the cord, then our son was placed on my chest. 'Hello, Jam,' I whispered, as I kissed his downy head.
I couldn't help staring at him. I counted 10 fingers, 10 toes. He looked so perfect - but he was so still. It was as if he was sleeping. Part of me hoped that someone had got this all wrong and that my baby would open his eyes and breathe.
But he stayed still in my arms as my tears fell. He looked like Joel. As I stroked his face, I realised part of me had died, too. We spent 24 hours with our precious boy in a private room.
We dressed him in the T-shirt and hat we had been planning to take him home in and wrapped him up in a cosy blanket.
The hospital chaplain, Russell, conducted a blessing and naming service with members of our families present. We kept Jam and added the name Wilfred, after my grandad. And then it was time to say goodbye. I gently laid him in his wicker carrycot and kissed his cherubic face.
Joel carried him to the mortuary and I wanted to run after them both, take my baby boy in my arms and never let him go. But I couldn't.
No one knows exactly why my baby died, but it was decided Jam's death was probably due to food poisoning. The post-mortem didn't add anything conclusive, although it did suggest the blood flow in my placenta could have been very mildly restricted. In a way, the reason wasn't important, it wouldn't bring my baby back.
Of course, I blamed myself. Why didn't I go to the hospital sooner? What could I have done differently? I wanted to hibernate, be anonymous. I couldn't go to the shops - I dreaded bumping into women from my antenatal classes, seeing them with their babies.
I'd wake in the night gasping: 'Where is he?', and Joel would wrap me in his arms. Without him I wouldn't have coped.
My baby was gone, but my body was geared up to care for him. My breasts were heavy with milk I couldn't express as I'd only produce more.
I found out about Stillbirth And Neonatal Death Society (Sands) and got in touch. They asked questions like: 'What did Jam look like?', that I wanted to answer but friends were too scared to ask. The online forum was my lifeline.
I kept the few baby things we had, and Joel had a tiny diamond ring made from the measurements of Jam's ring finger, which I still wear on a chain around my neck.
From the outset, Joel and I agreed we couldn't let this stop us having another baby. We started trying almost immediately, and within months I was pregnant again - and terrified. When Zak arrived safely in March 2007, I cried properly for the first time - he looked so much like his big brother - but he helped with our grief. Then last November, we had a baby girl, Bliss.
I've helped set up a branch of Sands in north-east London to help other mums like me realise that there is life, and happiness, after a stillbirth."
Joel, 35, says: "Losing a baby will lock you together or blow you apart - there's no middle ground. Jacqui and I are cemented now. It's important to talk candidly and be honest with your partner - they're the one person who understands. Zak and Bliss have both helped ease the heartache, but our eldest son will never be forgotten."
HELP IS HERE
Wellbeing of Women is working with Sands to prevent similar tragedies. Sands is a vital resource for parents who suffer the death of their baby during pregnancy or after birth. Visit Uk-sands.org or call 020 7436 5881.
PHOTOGRAPHY: SYRIOL JONES HAIR & MAKE-UP: SARA BOWDEN JACQUI WEARS: CARDIGAN, LITTLEWOODS; T-SHIRT, MARKS & SPENCER; JEANS, PRIMARK; NECKLACE, WALLIS; SHOES, NEW LOOK JOEL WEARS: SHIRT, BURTON; JEANS, MARKS & SPENCER; SHOES, TOPMAN
This article has 22 comments
Dear Editor,
My first baby Christopher died from injuries sustained following a traumatic forceps delivery 22 years ago when he was only 7 hours old, he was 9lb 3oz. I was just 18 years old and for years struggled alone to come to terms with the devastation and total heartbreak.
Music was very important to me following Christophers death and I decided that along with setting up a local support group that I wanted to create a CD an anthem of hope.
A 17 year boy, a friend of my son who is an outstanding local talent. He sang at Cardiff this Saturday at the remembrance concert and totally blew Rolf Harris away.
Anyway to cut a long story short we went to the legandary Rockfield studios to record and mastered at Skye Mastering.. It'S been released today on all major download sites and one of the songs "Everything I own" is chart registered.
National Sands are backing us and doing a major press release for us, because all the proceeds will go to the WHY 17 Campaign.
Steve will be singing at Cheltenham Fireworks at the racecourse this Saturday and also at the switch on of Cheltenham Christmas Lights.
To hear the songs in full www.stevesimsreflections.co.uk
and click on the butterfly to download tracks and then "listen"
track 1 is the pain
track 2 is the hope
track 3 is the strenght
Please please listen and I really do hope this gets to the editor... together we can make a difference.
Thank you for your time
Michelle Dimery
By Michelle Dimery. Posted November 2 2009 at 1:42 PM.
reading this story made me realise there is hope for us. we lost our daughter Skye on 6th September 09 as she was stillborn(I had severe pre eclampsia). We are devestated and I can't imagine how we are going to go on as we expected life and ended up arranging a funeral.
We are getting support from sands and waiting for the post mortem results. I just feel so empty but have taken comfort in the other comments and wish everyone all the best.
By Beckie. Posted October 26 2009 at 8:06 PM.
in 1974 i was looking forward to the birth of my 4th baby. the baby was on its way so with the other children being looked after off we went to the hospital .not long after we arrived all the pains just stopped and i no longer felt like i was in labour so i expected to be sent home but as i was there they checked me out and just like Jacqui they couldnt find a heartbeat all i could feel was panic no one could tell me anything just a mutter hear and there ,eventually a doctor arrived and so matter of factly told me that he thought my baby was dead but he would confirm it when the fetal monitor arrived ,he confirmed the baby was dead and i would have to be induced to deliever the baby .After the birth there was no little cry that i was praying for i asked what had i had and he was a boy.thats whenthey said i couldnt see him or hold him it wasnt hospital policy .we were broken hearted we werent even allowed to give him the name we had chosen for him as in 1974 a stillborn baby didnt need a name he just didnt exsist he was burried in an unmarked grave .the way things are now is much better as stillborn babys are treated as new arrivals who didnt make it they are names, cuddles kisses ,even have photos taken but in 1974 they were not . Even to this day some 35 years later i dont think i ever really did grieve for my son and i do still find my self upset when i read a story like Jacqius . but i did go on 3 years later to have a little girl but ill never forget my little boy
By Eileen Elliot. Posted October 7 2009 at 4:40 PM.
Hi Jacqui,
I can't even begin to imagine what you went through with Jam. I was aged 21 and 8 weeks pregnant when I lost my baby girl, Faith. Ever since the miscarriage (caused by polycystic ovaries) I've been determined to try for another baby - but my partner thinks it's too soon. I'm 22 now, and Faith died in my arms on Friday 16th May, 2008. I'll never forget her, but I do regret living in denial for seven months and not telling my partner sooner. He was not there when Faith died; neither of us were aware I was pregnant. To make matters worse, his brother's girlfriend has a baby who isn't biologically his, and it feels as though he cares more for this baby than he does for ours, even though Faith isn't here anymore. To this day, I find I'm stuck in my flat, not daring to go out just in case I see a buggy or a newborn baby and break down and cry in public. I have requested bereavement counselling on several occasions, but the fly in the ointment there is the waiting lists. In Sheffield, where I live, the waiting lists are HUGE. Half of me wants to move on, but I'm scared that if I move on and attempt to conceive again, I'll dishonour Faith's memory or - worse - miscarry again. Yourself and Joel are one of a kind. God bless you both xx
By Vicky Keeler. Posted October 3 2009 at 8:55 PM.
My husband and i lost our little boy Liam on the 20th of july this year he was born sleeping at 40 weeks and 5 days it is the most traumatic experience we have ever been through we were also told ther was no reason for this just bad luck i suppose i have found some comfort on stillbirth web sites reading others storys but was also horrified to find that stillbirth is ten times more likly than cot death but seems to be a tabboo subject i am not saying that people should be paronoid about this happening but i certanly never thought it would happen to me but it did none of the baby books cover this in any detail and 30% of stillbirths are unexplained whic i think is shocking in this day and age i just hope in future more reasearch is done into causes of this terrible thing that happens at a time when you should be celebrating instead of making funeral arrangments,i am terrifed of this happening again but am a mum with out her baby and hope i can find strengh to try again
thanks for this story and trying to raise awareness of this baby loss awareness day is the 15th of october.
thanks again
karen davis
By Karen Davis. Posted October 3 2009 at 3:39 PM.
I'm currently 11 weeks pregnant at the moment, absolutely bawling my eyes out and holding my tummy hoping my "Smudge" turns out okay.
My mum has had three miscarriages - one very early-term, and two mid-term (one on Xmas eve, too). The last two were in 2005 and 2006, and everybody still feels unable to talk about it with her. Even she feels uncomfortable with it at times. But not me. I try to talk to her as much as possible about the babies we all lost, trying to make her understand that it's okay, I'm here for her, etc... I'm even considering naming my own baby with the name she'd chosen for the last one.
Thank you for sharing your story with us, Jacqui, and I wish you, Joel, Zac, and Bliss (lovely name, by the way) all the best for your future.
By Tenielle. Posted October 2 2009 at 7:52 PM.
Hi i to had a stillborn at 41 weeks on 23/24 oct 08, its exactly as you described its heartbreaking you never get over it but you have to move forward, i miss my firstborn jake every day. he mainly died from me being overdue. im currently pregnant again and a nervous wreck i just hope this pregnancy will be fine. its so sad 17 babies die a day. stillborn and neonatel death is very taboo subject and never talked about. unless its happened to you. you cant possibly imagine whats its like to be told there is no heartbeat. i hope our angel babies are up there smiling down on us. jake i love you so much and miss you xx thankfully my partner has been great through this as i wouldnt of coped. im glad you had more children take care.
By michelle jones. Posted October 2 2009 at 2:44 PM.
Such a touching & heartbreaking story! I can't emagine what they went through! Such lovely people! Life is so unfair! Glad they now have beautiful healthy children, but baby jam will never be forgotten! xx Sorry to hear of all your losses xxxxxxxxxxx
By Laura Ellis. Posted October 2 2009 at 1:24 PM.
I read Jacqui's story 'we will never forget him' and know exactly what she went through. Our 1st and 3rd child were both stillborn at 36 weeks and we never got to see or hold them. Our son would be 34 and our daughter would be 31 and In the seventies the subject was never talked about. People would cross the road when they saw you coming as they just didn't know what to say.
We went on to have our two healthy daughters and now have two lovely grandchildren. I wish Jacqui and Joel all the best for the future with their lovely children.
By Jackie Sample. Posted October 1 2009 at 8:41 PM.
hi my name is sam,i lost my son at 39 weeks and 5 days.it was the hardest thing ever,im only 24 and its my first child.we had a postmorten and it came back fine,just one of them things the nurse said.it was on thursday 23rd october 2008 when i had no movements,they told me to go to the hospital fri morning for a heart moniter and scan.there was no heart beat and no movement on the scan,i was in bits,i didnt know what to do.so then they gave me a pill and sent me home,till sat morn at 9.i was in labour for 14 hours and he got stuck on the way out shoulder something its called.not a very nice labour for my first.we had our baby dilan buried at kingsthorpe cemetry and we go to see him every sunday...
By samantha clowes. Posted October 1 2009 at 1:31 AM.
Hi my name is Kerry-ann.I am so sorry for everyones loss.Myself and my partner lost are little boy Joshua at 36 weeks on 5.3.08.It has been a year and 6 months since we lost are precious Angel and not one day goes by that i dont think of him.The nigthmare of been told his heart beat had stop was just heart breaking.Its hard as i felt no one can really understand how you feel unless they have been though it themselves,although my mum has been my lifeline.I have a lockett which holds a small amount of his ashes and a picture of us holding him which gives me great comfort.I feel like he is with me everyday.I already had a 4 year old and have since had another little boy Nyle.It has been very,very hard but having Nyle has helped ease some of my pain.I still feel like part of me is missing,i will always love him and he will always be apart of my live.My 4 year old son knows all about his little borther. When Nyle is a little older and can understand he to will know about his 'big brother' Joshua. xx shine brigth in the nights sky forever my little Angel xx
By Kerry-ann Harrison. Posted September 29 2009 at 4:27 PM.
i thought i was the only one that felt this way even though its a year on!!! i got pregnant and he was due on the 10th of july! i woke in the morning and was feeling very weird that baby freddie had not moved because we did it every single morning i'de wake up and wait for him to give me the 'kick' to say 'im awake now mummy' but it never happened i did not think nothing of it to start but as the day went on i kept stopping and feeling - nothing, i went to my neighbour in desporation and she said that he was probably just tired! i did not wear that so i called my gp and they told me to go straight to the hospital so i did, when i got there they already had a bed ready for me in the 'dopler room' they tried to listen but could not find nothing so they suggested a scan althought they never let me look at the screen when they were checking the dreaded words came 'im sorry we cant find a heartbeat' they showed me the screen as proof i guess but it torn me apart there and then i just lay there and cryed my eyes out really hard my partner came in and looked at me and just cried i did not need to tell him some how he already knew!!!! they advised me to go and get booked in to have little freddie but i did not want to as i wanted to spend one more night with him as i knew it would have been the last we went home and cried most of the night the next day i went to hospital and they gave me pesseries (2) then the labour progressed and i was getting more and more scared because i knew he was coming! he finally came out and i held his hand and his fingers closed on mine and i was shouting 'he's not dead' but the midwife said i was stupid and got the stethascope on him then put it on mine and said 'see'!!! he was pretty as i picture plump as expected he weighed 7lb 12oz and was born 6 days before his due date. it still hurts me now when i think about him, i have pictures and have framed the best one. i gi to his grave every other day because if i dont i know i will be thinking to hard about him and it has in the past caused me to have nightmares about things!!! i guess now my two other children are a lot older one is 5 and the youngest is 3 i have to think of them now as they are here.!!!! i still keep being told that it will get easyer im not sure at the minute though!!!
By joanne. Posted September 28 2009 at 2:48 PM.
I was reading jacqui veitch's story and it reminded me so much of what im going through right now I gave birth to my stillborn baby boy on 16/09/09 I am finding it hard but also trieing to be strong, I felt so alone but reading jacqui's story made me realise i am not alone there are people out there going through the same heartache as me and things can only get better thank you x
By Edele McNamara. Posted September 28 2009 at 1:30 PM.
How 'pleased' I was to read this article...The tradgedy of stillbirth is still so taboo. Until our son was stillborn last year, I thought it was something rare, something that never happened, especially after a textbook healthy pregnancy. How wrong was I? Our son, Zack, died during labour when I was 12 days overdue. When reading Jacqui's moving story, the tears flowed again, the words could have been written by me, or any one of the thousands of parents who have lost a child. I too found a great deal of comfort from using the SANDS forums, and meeting other mums who lost children around the same time. Other bereaved parents are the only people who truly understand the pain and hurt of losing your child and burying them before you get the chance to know them. SANDS is an amazing charity, one which I had never heard of until I sadly had to contact them for support, and I am so glad that your article provides their details for anyone who needs it. How lovely to read of the birth of Jam's little brother and sister. It gives me hope that despite always feeling the loss of your child, there is still hope for the happiness that future children can bring. Sending much love and best wishes to Jacqui, Joel, Zak and Bliss xxx
By Emma Millington. Posted September 28 2009 at 1:01 PM.
hi its so sad this happens to so many of us . Our son died after 16 mins, last august i was full term plus 2 weeks .I am lucky to be blessed with 2 other girls 13 &11, but i still think of charlie everyday, what is so hard is i had great pregnancy, but during labour i had a spontaneous uterine rupture which until it happened i had never heard of it,It is about 1 in 15,000 it happens to .My stepson has just had a baby boy with his partner i have only seen him twice as i find it so hard i have been told i could try again but not sure what to do also i am 39 so clock is ticking away.Charlie is buried just up the road from us about 2 min walk its 12 months on and i still find i go to him everyday its hard to explain to people but i feel so sad if i go past and i havent been to him,i do try to not go so often but with him being so close its hard, thanks for taking time to read this. And hope you are all coping with your loss in your own way
By sharon parker. Posted September 28 2009 at 8:51 AM.
Hi ...
My name is Meg ... I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy 23 years ago, we named him Paul and he lived 4 days.. he was a prem baby weighing 2lb 13 ... we thought we would never recover from our loss, thankfully if anything it brought us closer together. After the heartbreak of losing Paul and when his funeral was over .. I was told I had lupus and advised maybe it was better we did not have more children.If it was not for the help of my amazing doctor and fertility treatment, I would not have the 2 wonderful children I have today ... a Daughter almost 20 and a Son almost 18, I know how blessed I am and both children know all about Paul and what a wonderful precious gift he was. He is and always will be a huge part of our lives, and for all the pain lessens and life must go on ... I do not think a day goes by where I do not at some point think of him, if only for a fleeting moment.All I want to say is life can be very isolated after losing a baby... you feel no one else has gone through what you have, but for all women out there that have gone through this ... there is light at the end of the tunnel, once the pain is bearable the memories carry you through the dark days ...and no one can ever take those away from you...i'd not give up the 4 days I had with my son for anything in the world ...
love Meg X
By Meg. Posted September 27 2009 at 10:53 PM.
Hi i'm Jayne I gave birth to Thomas on 27th July this year, 4 days after my 40th birthday. He was stillborn. Tom was our first baby. He was beautifull and looked just like his daddy Steve. I was 29 weeks pregnant and had been totally happy, friends said how well I looked and had never felt better! I felt so special that I was carrying this little person that was already so loved and wanted so very much! A routine scan revealed Tom had severe bleeding on his brain and would not survive. It was first thought that the problem was genetic between myself and Steve and that although there was a possibility that we would be able to have children, but maybe not with each other. The sense of loss and focus was unbearable.I too said the same words as Susan above that I am a mum but without a child. I also find it very difficult around other pregnant ladies as I feel really envious of their round tums. Thankfully we have just been told that there is no genetic problem with each other and we can try again when we are ready. We have been told by a consultant that the reason we lost Tom was probably due to a virus. Its still very early days on our road of recovery, but after reading Jacqui and Joels story today has made us feel that we can get through this and maybe we will also be lucky enough to have another child some time soon. Joel is very right in saying losing a baby can lock you together or blow you apart as Steve and myself are now closer than ever and will be getting married at christmas in Cuba. Our baby Tom although he is not physically here has brought us together as a family, and we will continue to love him and remember that little special person forever. I would like to thank you for letting me tell my story and to hear the views of others as it really does help. Jayne
By Jayne Cohen. Posted September 27 2009 at 8:46 PM.
hi, just like to thank you for the story, even though it is heartbreaking to hear of another couple going through a stillbirth, you dont really hear about it in the news even though it happens to so many people.We lost our daughter in May this year at 39 weeks. It is the hardest thing we have ever been through and it has made us much more closer and much more stronger. She was our first child, and it angers me when i see stories about kerry katona wanting a 5th baby to help her off drugs, the 4 she has already should be enough to get her off drugs, and feel blessed she has 4 healthy children.
By H Adams. Posted September 27 2009 at 6:14 PM.
Hi my name is Debra and i have just read your story and i thought it was beautiful. x
Me and my husband lost our son in September 1988 while giving birth through still birth and i always say that no-one knows how it feels to lose a child unless you have been through it. We have never forgot him and never will.
I also agree with what Joel says it either makes or breaks you and me, my huband and daughters talk about him all the time xxx
By Debra Elston . Posted September 27 2009 at 2:27 PM.
i what 2 say i no how u fell i lost my son not that long ago and my sis lost 3 sillborns its so heart breakin and it hurts so much ....
By melanie . Posted September 27 2009 at 1:50 PM.
Hi there,
Just thought i'd say thanks to jacqui and joel for sharing their story as we have just been through a simular loss as i was almost 4 months pregnant and i had bladder infections from week 3 something i had never suffered from before and was on and off antibiotics which made me frightened for our babys safety but was in so much pain i did take them.
Then the eve before my first maternity appointment at work i felt water coming away i went to the bathroom to discover it wasn't a leak of urine it was my waters breaking i phoned the hospital and they told me to come but yet more waters gave way whilst at the hospital and i knew in my heart it wasn't good.
They scanned me and "freddie" was still alive but no waters around him which meant he would eventually die.It was the hardest decession but i knew i had to take the medication to move things on to delivery i was too unwell with another bladder infection and fever to leave hospital so had to stay in the labour ward hearing during the night babies crying when being born knowing i'd never here my baby cry.
In the early hours of the next day i gave birth to freddie with richard my partner by my side every step of the way it was the hardest thing but when our midwife brought freddie back after a wee while we meet him for the first and last time he was perfect all the bits in the right place he had really long legs like me and Richard.
I feel now after 5 1/2 weeks since we lost freddie that i feel better but still can't look at pregnant lady or newborn babies but i know one day it will be easier.
I'm glad i meet freddie and that i gave birth to him but feel lost as feel i'm a mother without a child
We have his grave to visit and his little hand and foot prints and his blanket he was wrapped in all in his box the hospital give us through "Simba"
Thank you for letting me write this to you and letting other women know like jacqui that we are not alone and as jacqui shows that hopefully we will go on to have other children.
Finally to joel you have been a great strength to jacqui as my Richard has been to me as much as family are a great support they are the only one that feels the same pain of losing your child.
Kind regards
Susan
By susan dick. Posted September 27 2009 at 1:46 PM.
hi my name is heather i had a stillborn on the 10/6 1984 i went 9months and my baby was a girl i named her eileen after my mum she was born with two holes in her heart i had the support oif my partner and family it helped but i never forget her birthday i now have a 24 year old son and my partner is now my husband i never knew what caused the death but i still wonder if there was anything i could have done different i am very happy that i could have more children also when i lost my child my brother had a baby 10 days before and then my sister had a baby 10 days after they were scared to bring their babies around they didnt know how i would react but i said thats ok i think it helped abit
By heather oreilly. Posted September 27 2009 at 1:38 PM.